House of Lords on Thursday, June 30th, 6pm.
Apologies - Minute Sec. recorded 10 apologies
Present : Sabine McNeill [Co-ordinator]; Donald Martin [Chairman]; Lord
Sudeley [Host]; Richard Sargent [Speaker]: Peter Challen [Minute Secretary];
Mary Fee; Latimer Clark; Sylvia; Peter Browne; Julita Karol; Anthony Chevasse;
Alexander Baron; Brendan Treacy; Ken Costello; Keith Whincup [SAFE];
Stephen Filbey;Tony Pritchett; Anthony
Whittaker; Said Bassily; Khalid Saeed; Kazuyash Toeda;
Kasauyuli Asada; Alice Kadel; Ken Cooper; Dr. Carl Shapley; Cllr, Grant
Stanley; Gilbert Tipper; Peter Travers; John Barnes; Lord Gisborough; Lord
Hamilton of Ozdaezeu; Barbara Kunz; Peter Koenig; Ken Cooper; Peter Richardson;
Siad Orfal; Leslie Collins; Najib Saba; Tony Michaelson-Yeates; Abdallah
1. Reminder of the widening context in which we are debating & exploring:-
a. 'Money is to be the servant not the master of humanity.'
b. 'Banks' abilities to create money out of nothing must be curtailed.'
c. 'Governments need to take back control of the Money Supply and to prevent
money from losing value.
Additional context that keeps cropping up and should be in the back of our minds
d. Much philosophical and religious wisdom raises serious questions about any
'money making money' [usury] and Richard Douthwaite is now raising the issue in
a Schumacher Circle booklet.
e. 'Let Ancient Wisdom Determine Money Making' is a page of broken verse
available as an monetary reform agenda among those engaged in our discussions to
2. Comments on notes of last mtg. No written comments had been submitted.
3. Bank Victims. Dick Sargent - AUDIT UK: Evidence of Overcharging
Leading to Bankruptcies. Very strong evidence given supporting the growing
consensus among analysts of the monetary problems in the world. At the
same time, there is an increase in the number of people who suffer from
unemployment, bankruptcy and stress caused by financial institutions.
Important examples, not detailed in these notes, were given on how banking
malpractice can be challenged if not eradicated. 83% of all accounts
checked (corporate only) are overcharged. Dick Sargent gets settlements
for ALL of them. How can dishonestly created money be honestly earned?
He considered the systemic cause requiring his skilled business to analyze bank
statements for his clients and get settlement payments for them. He traced some
links between a debt-based currency system, the banks' monopoly
to create credit and their very doubtful practice of interest and overdraft
charges and fees. Many important largely unpublicised details were given that
are not summarised here, and should be sought directly from AuditUK.
We debated what needs to change so that a dishonest system does not get
perpetuated into the next millennium. One conclusion widely agreed was that
self-regulation doesn't work. Whenever legislation is threatened banks
issue self-justifying codes and little changes. Noted 'unavailability' in
UK of 'Breaking the Bank' [isbn 1 841 313 777] a report on the exposed National
Irish Banking scandal. Donald Martin undertook in the light of legal advice to
make it available.
Donald also reported the consultation in train on 'Banks and Business Working
Together' (1994). NEEDS EVIDENCE FOR July 21st.
Stephen Goodson from the Abolition of Income Tax and Usury Party of RSA made a
contribution and his promotional flyer was distributed. More info from
Lord Sudeley - Gave extensive close details of his Family's Historic Bankruptcy
Case 100 Years ago, revealing the disturbing parallels with the bank's actions
today, effecting huge numbers of businesses and individuals.
Peter Challen - spoke of (1) Kenneth Galbraiths LSE stern millennial statement
on Basic Income and Nuclear Weaponry, both of which are rooted in the money
issue; and (2) the current attempt to redraft the UN Charter of Human Rights as
the Earth Charter and that money was not tackled seriously
enough therein - IMMEDIATE opportunity to offer redrafting proposals. Enquire of
Sabine emphasised strongly the importance of staying with the hope of
influencing the Lords Committee and Lord Peston, its Chairman, is undertaking to
widen its brief.
4. reports were given on other meetings
- - Second Thursday of Month Meetings @ the Debtors' Prison in Clink
Street, SE1. [ 7 minutes from London Bridge Station] focusing on the Campaign
for Interest Free Money, but giving some time to the Land Tax approach to
monetary reform and a model of local Authority initiatives in Social Investment.
Next Mtg. July 8th 6-8.
- - Weekly Meetings @ the Global Café, 15 Golden Square continues -
all welcome. Discussions start where new comers are on monetary reform in
general or particular and develop the dialogue patiently.
-- June 23d H of C meeting of CCMJ had the Bishop of Worcester making strong
comment on the greater economic integrity of the Muslim and Jewish understanding
of economy than the contemporary Christian majority position
.- LETSLink UK and LETSLink London reported their developments in relation to
initiatives by Linda Gilmour MP to disregard LETS in assessments for social
- Early 1999 launch of Al Safa Investment fund avoids Ribah (Interest).
CCMJ providing a Christian (and others, a Jew) to be associates of the
Supervisory Board and to critique decisions from a theological and anti-usury
6. Items for discussion at Future Meetings
- to start a systematic look at the problems and solutions discussed by the
Forum by inviting people identified by Lord Sudeley with expert knowledge
from a variety of disciplines.
- Report on Jubilee2000 and the shift to more fundamental change, using Kairos
UK summary of the position today.
- Jan Wyllie and A M-Yeates to report on the 4 European regional currencies
7. .Date of next Meeting - Wednesday July 22nd in Comm Rm. 4b